Charles Walker calls for the Bill to require that mentally ill patients who need to be detained in a place of safety are held in a therapeutic environment rather than a police cell.

Mr. Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): I rise to move amendment No. 88. I have never moved an amendment in the House before and I cannot think of a better one with which to start. [Interruption.] Am I not speaking about amendment No. 88? Am I not on the right track? I appear to be causing hilarity.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman may speak about amendment No. 88, but he isnot moving it at this time. At the moment, only new clause 11 is being moved. If and when there is any question of a vote on amendment No. 88, the hon. Gentleman may move it formally.

Mr. Walker: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for your guidance. In my excitement, I was getting ahead of myself. I shall try to stay within the bounds of parliamentary protocol.

Amendment No. 88 is designed to change the definition of a place of safety so that, as far as possible, it is not a police cell. Too often, people who have a mental episode that results in a disturbance or act of violence end up in a police cell. As far as possible, we would like to ensure that a place of safety is actually in a therapeutic environment. If that is not possible, however, we would hope that within 24 hours of someone being placed in a police cell after an episode of mental illness, they would be found a place in a therapeutic environment where they could receive appropriate care.

I believe that the amendment is hugely important because it sends out a message about how we regard mental illness, which is not a crime. In certain cases, it may drive people to commit acts that could be perceived to be criminal or, indeed, are criminal, but mental illness in itself is not a crime.

I have personal experience of being around people who have had extremely violent and aggressive episodes of mental illness, and I have to say that it is very frightening, but I can say now, with hindsight, that a police cell is not what these very ill and sick people need. It really is not. The police are not trained to be the jailers of the mentally ill; it is outside their range of competence. They are not skilled at managing the symptoms. The police are not clinically trained. I would have thought that locking someone up in a police cell could only add to the trauma and make that sick person even sicker.

If we do not progress with the amendment, I hope that the Minister and others will look further into the way that mental illness is approached in the community, particularly by the police, and try to find ways of ensuring that when the police are confronted with a violent mentally ill person, they can recognise the situation and call on the help of clinical experts to help them to manage it— [Interruption.] I suspect that my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (John Bercow) is getting agitated, so I shall give way.

John Bercow (Buckingham) (Con): Does my hon. Friend agree that warm words, though very welcome if forthcoming from the Minister, will not on this occasion suffice? We need some sort of formal commitment that mentally ill people will speedily be put in a place of safety other than a police cell. Very often, they will not be able to give voice to their own anxieties. They look to this House to protect them—and protect them we must, otherwise there is a real danger of what I would call careless and accidental incarceration or careless cruelty. We have a responsibility to avoid that.

Mr. Walker: My hon. Friend makes an excellent point in his usual eloquent way. The amendment would allow the House to send a message to people who are mentally ill that we care about their welfare and about alleviating their troubles and that we want to ensure that, in as many cases as possible, they are in places that best meet their needs as ill people—as patients.

I recall describing in Committee something that happened in my constituency, but I shall not go into it in detail again. It concerned a young girl of about 14 who was having a violent episode. I was with the police on that occasion and we were called to the house. It sounded as though there were about 30 people in that house, throwing things, screaming and yelling, but it was actually just one tiny 14-year-old girl. This little girl was walked out in between two policemen. I cannot remember whether she was handcuffed—I hope she was not—but she was put in a police car and taken to a police station. I, a totally untrained observer, could recognise that the girl was mentally ill. What was happening to her was completely and utterly not in her interests. It was a moving experience for me. By accepting this amendment, I hope that we can ensure that such circumstances are kept to the absolute minimum in future.

In providing a therapeutic environment, we must strike the right balance between having beds and community facilities. I know that there is a big move to close beds and move services, particularly day services, into the community, but in many cases we still need beds and secure places for such young people.

8.15 pm

Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Is there not another practical point? We heard from the Ministry of Justice today that police cells are going to be used for criminals because there are not enough places in our prisons. If we have a Ministry of Truth in a few days’ time, perhaps it will be honest enough to admit that there will not be enough room in police cells for this, so we need something better.

Mr. Walker: I understand where my right hon. Friend is coming from. It is just not right to take people who are mentally ill and put them in police stations and in police cells next to criminals. If we are serious about ending the stigma attached to mental health, this is one practice that we should stop as soon as possible.

Dr. Iddon: Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that the police would have great difficulty if they arrested a drug addict who was also mentally ill? The police would probably see the drug addiction beyond the mental illness. Does that not create a problem for the amendment?

Mr. Walker: I appreciate that there will be difficulties of interpretation at the margins, but I come back to the 14-year-old girl. It was not difficult to interpret that decision. What happened to her was clearly wrong and could not be justified in any society that claimed to be civilised in its approach to people with mental illness. I accept the hon. Gentleman’s point, but we are here to navigate our way through these difficult issues and I am sure that there is a way forward. I know that the Minister will have something to say about it. Briefly, then, we must ensure that there are facilities and beds within the community.

I was heartened by what the Minister said yesterday about age-appropriate facilities. The most important people we need to look after and remove from police cells are the young. Everyone is important, but Rome was not built in a day. If we could get more age-appropriate facilities in the community, near people’s homes—it does not have to be next door; we accept that there will be resource issues—it would be a fantastic and positive step forward. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak to this important amendment.

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